In March, when his latest single “luvletters” dropped, Filipino-Irish artist Kendino spoke with Post-Burnout about the single, working with artist REM$ and producer Mubi on it, his plans for an EP, his Westlife influence, becoming a producer, the power of collaborations, Nickelodeon and Disney TV shows, bedroom pop, and more.

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I guess the first thing I’ll ask, as just kind of a basic introduction, is just how you got into music yourself?

Yeah, that’s actually a funny story because I’ve loved music ever since I was a kid, like, you know what I mean? It’s literally how I learnt English. It’s going to be a bit of an embarrassing story, but see, my mom went to Ireland, right? So, when she comes back home, she sends us these CDs and stuff. The first thing I got was a Westlife CD! It was a very light blue one, you know with all the four…all the five heads and stuff like that? And yeah, no, [Laughs] ever since then I’ve been learning…I’ve been singing, like, “Fool Again” and “Uptown Girl,” and all that stuff, and that’s when I knew I loved music, you know what I mean? And then it just grew from there, like I heard about the Black Eyed Peas when I was a kid. Really big in the Philippines, because one of the guys, apl.de.ap, he’s actually Filipino.

Yeah, that’s right.

Yeah. So, for Elephunk and for Monkey Business as well, like, there’s at least one song that’s a Filipino song and that kind of stuck out to me, like, “Oh, we can make it as well, as artists. It’s not just these guys from here, those guys from there. Like, literally anyone can make it.” So, I just had that in my head and, yeah, it was nice to know that I had a shot, you know what I mean? It kind of inspired me to do what I’m doing right now.

So, it all starts with Westlife?

[Laughs] Yeah, unfortunately! But, hey, it’s a good thing though, you know what I mean?

So, when did the Kendino project start then?

Um, I want to say around like 2018. Like, I had the name before then, you know? It was just kind of a playful thing, because, like, Childish Kendino, it sounds like Childish Gambino. “Oh, my God! He’s a Donald Glover fan!” you know what I mean? So, yeah, so that’s how it started. And I didn’t actually think of making music myself until I dropped out of college, you know? Like, I had nothing to do. But then I met these guys who were, like, freestyling and rapping all the time, and I was like, “Yeah, that’s actually pretty cool!” So, I started [Laughs] believe it or not, I actually started off writing battle raps that could go up against them; it was just for me and these guys in this friend circle. And we would just go off at [each other]. Were they good? Not really! [Laughs] But it started off something! It started off my love for writing and, like, I already had sort of an eclectic taste in music anyway, I listened to like the most weirdest shit, and I always wanted to make something like that myself, you know? Because I’ve played guitar over the years, so music has always been a thing for me, but actually producing, actually making…has never occurred to me until that moment in time. I was like, “I have the time, I have the instruments, I, like, have the skills. I just gotta learn to, you know, sing better, I gotta learn to write better, all that kind of stuff” and it all just came together. And nine months later, you know what I mean, up in St James’s Hospital, Kendino was born!

Oh, OK! [Both laugh]

Yeah! Hell yeah. That’s the story with that.

So, was that difficult, actually transitioning into a musician yourself? I mean, you know, you kind of just sort of gloss over the, em, the actual process, I guess, of being a musician, of kind of learning…I mean in the case of what you’re doing as well, I mean there’s also the production side, which is its own career in and of itself, its own occupation. Yeah, I was just wondering, was that difficult or did you adapt to it very quickly?

Um, I wouldn’t say I adapted to it quickly. Like, literally before honestly 2020, I was only using Audacity, you know what I mean? Like, one of those free programmes you can get. [Laughs] It was…I didn’t know it was for audiobooks; I didn’t know that at all. Like, it was to like do those kind of recordings, but I was like…I used it anyway and…

I used to make soundscapes on Audacity, so… [Laughs]

You know what I mean? Exactly! So, you’re familiar with it, as well?

Yeah.

You know how…shoutouts to Audacity. [Both laugh] Shoutouts to the creators of that, you know what I mean? But yeah, no, it was crazy, because all I had was that and an Apple microphone and I would just sing into that, and then I released “Switching Lanes” then on Soundcloud and then [from] then, it just kept snowball[ing], because I actually got the attention of a producer at the time, and then we got to record that professionally, then put that on Spotify, you know what I mean? And that’s when everything started happening. Obviously with COVID hitting, you know what I mean – sorry to say a trigger word there! [Both laugh] – but, yeah, ever since that started, I couldn’t go home…I had to stay at home, so obviously I couldn’t go to my mate’s house and do music there, so I had to stay home and do it myself, you know? And, you know, with all the time in the world and all that stuff, I did a whole thing; I started buying stuff for myself, like, I got a little Focusrite; I got, you know, like a microphone, [Pointing to the microphone he’s using for the interview] not this one, though, the other one there. [Points off-screen] I have a sec…I have two mics now! So, you know what I mean? I’ve come so far! [Both laugh] But, yeah, no, I had those two things and then I got…with the Focusrite, actually, there was like a free trial for Ableton, you know what I mean? I had to cop that. I had to cop that, obviously, to learn and all that stuff. It was pretty decent as well, because you can actually do eight tracks and, like, it doesn’t seem much to producer…to most producers these days, but, you know what I mean, eight tracks is a lot, you can work with so much stuff, especially if you’re just working with YouTube beats; all the other seven tracks then can be vocal, you know what I mean? So, yeah, that’s when I started doing that. That’s when I started learning how to mix and master as well. You know, very nerdy stuff, but [Laughs] it was a hard road to get along, because, you know, sound engineering and all that stuff is very new to me. Because what I was doing, obviously before COVID and before I dropped out, electronic engineering and all that kind of stuff, so I haven’t touched on it…well, I mean, there was sounds and signals but, like, you know what I mean, our lecturer didn’t tell me, “OK…OK, guys, open up your FL Studios, we’re going to be doing this today,” you know what I mean? So, yeah, it was a new field for me, but I got the hang of it eventually, you know? I caught up with some mates and they were telling me little tips and tricks to help me out, how to make it easier. And now, I’m still learning a lot now, actually. I was just noodling with some of the session stuff the other day because my next goal is to try to learn how to DJ, because, like, I just think that looks cool, so, yeah. Yeah, I’m pretty happy with my progress right now.

Yeah, and I mean, you’ve also mentioned before that you’ve produced for Andromeda, and I was wondering what that’s like, working with other people?

So, I haven’t produced with Andromeda. Andromeda has actually mixed a song that I worked on with Boringbrxwneyes, so that’s kind of like that whole story there. But I have produced with other people, like with REM$, with the Kyd G, with Mubi, he’s another producer, like all those people, and it’s been nice. It’s been eye-opening because I’ve seen other people’s process to things, you know what I mean? But I have a whole schedule, like there’s a whole thing I’ve got to do. I don’t know if that’s normal or anything, but I feel like it’s more efficient, you know what I mean? You can’t just open up your DAW and be like, “OK, what am I doing today?” you know what I mean? Once you have everything set up, it will make your process faster. Yeah, everyone else does it differently. Like, I have people like…you know, I have mates like Deleon who opens it up and already has everything he needs; he has his keyboard down, he has his MIDIs, he has his beats, vocals, vocal tracks, like, his…he already has autotune and stuff ready, you know what I mean? With that guy in particular, the key word is “efficiency.” Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency; you know what I’m saying? And with guys like Mubi, obviously because he’s a producer, you know what I mean, he’d have FL Studio open – which, by the way, [Laughs] has opened up a lot of arguments because I’m an Ableton guy at heart, always. I have had so many arguments with this guy, back and forth, like, which one’s better? And then I show him, “I can do this!” and he’s like, “I can do that!” and it’s nice because, like, it’s the best of both worlds, you know what I mean?

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, both worlds together, we feel like Hannah Montana. It’s nice. [Both laugh] Because, like…

Westlife, Hannah Montana. All the shoutouts. [Both laugh]

Exactly! You know what I mean? Oh, I love her! She’s an idol.

I know you said your taste was versatile, but…[Laughs]

Yeah. Oh, literally, yeah. Oh, no, trust me, you know what I mean? The Disney shows. The Nickelodeon shows. Shoutout to Good Burger 2 being announced, you know what I mean?

Oh, yeah, yeah! [Starts singing] I’m a dude, he’s a dude…[Laughs]

[Continues song] …They’re a dude, ‘cause we’re all dudes! [Both laugh] Oh, my God! I’m glad I’m speaking to a fellow fan!

Oh, absolutely, I grew up on that shit.

Oh, for real. That was the greatest. It’s like all those things coming together, honestly. Like, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s nice. I feel like a kid again, you know?

Yeah, yeah!

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Working with other producers because, like, actually – I guess this will transition us onto your new single “luvletters” – co-produced by Mubi.

Yes.

I was wondering, like, you know, what does kind of…producing with another person bring to it? Because I feel some people are kind of more precious about their music, they’re like, “I want to do everything, top to bottom, myself,” and some people are more open to – what would you call it? Open to…

Collaborating.

…collaboration, yeah. And they kind of want to see what other people can bring. What’s your stance on all that?

Like, honestly, I’m literally smack down in the middle, because obviously I’ve been doing it for a while now. In terms of, like, my sound, it’s…I actually would describe it as experimental. Like, I’ve had some stuff…But the thing is, most of the stuff I work on, that I don’t want people to know yet, is in the bank, you know? And, right now, I’m only known as, like, a lo-fi artist, like, you know, an R&B singer, stuff like that, but I’m pretty much capable of other things as well. That kind of stuff, I will throw it to myself; I will just keep it on the lockbox. Obviously, I’ll get people’s opinions on it, but other than that, unless I need help, unless there’s something I can’t honestly do alone, I’ll keep that stuff locked. And then, there’s the other side of things, where obviously “luvletters” is co-produced by Mubi. Obviously, it’s been a blessing because, when working with other people – and not just him, as well – it’s with other people, you know what I mean? Because with us – I don’t know if I said it before – but REM$ produces as well, you know? So, all these guys together, it’s like having the United Nations of Producers, you know what I mean? You have all these different ideas, all these different people from different backgrounds, different teachings. Like, from my knowledge, I think we’re all just self-taught, you know? You know what I mean? Shoutout to lockdown, giving us all that free time! [Both laugh] But, yeah, we’re basically all self-taught, and bringing those ideas together, it’s like, you know, “He’s giving me this cool idea,” or “He’s giving me this cool idea.” Like, honestly, I wouldn’t even touch 808s if it wasn’t for Mubi, you know what I mean? Because he’s more-or-less an expert in that. He’s very much inspired by Metro Boomin, but he’ll tell you that, you know what I’m saying? If you have an interview with him some day, he’ll let you know that’s what his whole thing is. And, like, my inspiration would be more 88rising guys, like Joji. I think it is just Joji; there’s Rich Brian as well, but like, you know what I mean, he’s kind of fallen off. But, yes, Joji, he is the god! He is the king! And, yes, so that’s what my sound…that’s what my original sound is based off of, you know what I mean? Softboi, heartbroken-type shit. And REM$ is more of, like, a boom bap, like ‘90s sound, so, like, honestly, everything just combined. And, then there’s guys like Deleon. And I’ve seen you interview this guy as well, GNS.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, just the other day. I had a quick read of it there, actually. It was a pretty funny interview. [Both laugh]

It was a great interview. I really enjoyed it.

Yeah, that’s good. I think he did too. Yeah, so all these people combined would help me and I hope I help them as well, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like I do, but obviously that’s for them to say, but I feel like all of us, coming together, doing this like whole collaborative sound, benefits everybody in the group, you know what I mean? So, yeah, I’m on the fence, but I feel like they both would benefit artists, so, you know. If anyone out there listening, reading Post-Burnout right now, honestly find yourself even just one person that knows a little bit about music, so when you’re learning together, you come up together, you know?

Yeah, and that’s kind of the cool thing I think about the kind of music now, is that I talk to so many people, and it’s like everyone has such…like, has their own, like, really unique approach to producing music. Because, like you were mentioning, the pandemic kind of forced everyone to have to kind of become a producer too, and I’ve just found that everyone kind of had their growing pains, and they were kind of figuring it out for themselves, and everyone just kind of adapted, and you get people who are very, very technically masterful and they’re at the very cutting edge, and then you get people who are kind of stringing it together with chewing gum and it’s like, but it works, you know what I mean?

[Laughs] Exactly, yeah.

And it sounds great. And I think there is a certain baseline of professional production that everyone kind of enjoys nowadays, that probably wouldn’t have been the case before. Like, if you listen to kind of old, like, self-produced stuff – whatever genre – like say from the ‘80s or ‘90s, it sounds like shit because it was, you know, it was produced in like two hours in some studio or whatever. [Both laugh] So, it’s like awful.

Literally, yeah.

But like now, everyone kind of just has a laptop, everyone has a phone, whatever. Like, everyone has access to a certain level of competency. [Laughs]

Yeah, literally. Like, it’s even what you say, like an iPhone, you know what I mean…

The microphone in an iPhone is a lot better than people would expect, when it comes to production.

Facts. Facts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It has good noise reduction and stuff.

Good noise reduction. Like, plus you have free access to GarageBand, you know what I mean? Shoutout GarageBand, you know? [Laughs]

[Laughs] Shoutout GarageBand!

Yeah, like, actually, fun fact, that’s what Joji uses to this day to make his music, you know what I mean? And he’s won a few GRAMMYs already. Think about that: a few GRAMMYs off of GarageBand. That’s crazy!

Yeah, well I think that kind of rise in bedroom pop and stuff is really explaining just how versatile music tastes are getting, and I think like even the average per…like, because this isn’t really countercultural; I mean, it’s very mainstream, it sells well. You know, the people play all over the world to decent-sized venues, so like everything is…it’s insane to me. I’m also seeing it with kind of the postpunk movement here too, where it’s just like music that ten years ago, let’s say, would be stuck in the clubs is now getting mainstream attention, you know what I mean? It’s on radio, it’s on TV, they’re playing proper…quote, unquote, “proper venues,” you know what I mean? [Laughs]

Yeah, that’s the thing.

And it’s really cool to see that. Like, I really enjoy seeing the kind of versatility now. And I think you’re part of it too, you played with The Amniotics and it’s like you have like…I just think that’s really cool to see. To see the kind of versatil[ity], because even when I was growing up, everything was very fragmented into little camps, where it’s like, “Oh, you like rock music. You like hip-hop…”

Yeah, like into little sections and stuff. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And I just see those barriers dissolving now, and I think it’s good. I think it’s good for future generations too, where it’s like everyone now has access to whatever they want to listen to, and I think it’s making art more interesting, it’s making music more interesting.

For sure.

But I think it’s also bringing, as you were kind of talking about, a kind of harmony, where the music scene and the art scene isn’t cutthroat anymore; everyone’s consolidating and they’re kind of trying to help each other, and I think that’s a really beautiful thing to see, you know?

Yeah, for sure. Like, you know, circling back on that, like, I think…I completely agree with you, you know what I mean? Because like I’m a big believer in taking the word “genre” out of the dictionary, you know what I’m saying? Because that just separates people, that limits people into what they’re capable of doing, because like, you know…Like, myself, for example. [Laughs] Sorry for using myself as an example…

Go ahead! [Laughs]

I’m very narcissistic! But, yeah, growing up over the years, you know what I’m saying, I’ve grown a peculiar taste, you know? Like, I’ve had the emo phase; I’ve had the hip-hop phase; obviously I’ve had the Gambino phase; and lo-fi as well. So, like, right now, I have all these things together and, like, you know, I honestly…if I were to describe myself, music-wise, honestly, I’m the Sonic Avatar! You know what I’m saying? I have all these elements, like, just combined together, and I enjoy all of them, you know what I mean? And I would experiment, I would try actually doing all of these. Like, in the bank I have, like, a few Jersey stuff that you already heard with “luvletters,” the dance-y, club-type thing. I have a few rock…like, something I love to do, especially in my bedroom, because with all these foams [Points to acoustic foam panels on his wall] and stuff, no-one can hear me, I love to scream. [Laughs] I love to do proper screamo, proper Chester Bennington-style like, [Growls], you know what I mean? I completely enjoy that. But then I would also love to spit like a really fast sixteen, you know what I mean? It switches up every now and then, you know? And I feel like it’s been mainstream now because you have artists like Tyler, the Creator doing this kind of stuff. You see Lil Yachty completely, completely going off his comfort zone with this whole jazz, soul album, you know what I mean?

Sure.

And, honestly, I’ve been enjoying it; I cannot stop bumping it. And then you have guys like Slowthai basically being the new face of both grime and punk, which is great, because I think those two genres are…it’s actually…hold on. [He reaches down then holds up Dizzee Rascal’s Boy in da Corner and Foo Fighters’ The Colour and the Shape albums on vinyl] You know what I’m saying? Grime and rock. Dizzee Rascal and the Foo Fighters, you know what I’m saying? [Both laugh] I feel like now it’s more relevant than ever, to bring those genres together.

The interesting thing I think of, actually – and maybe this is something you’ve thought of, too – is if you actually look at the history of punk rock and hip-hop, it’s very similar. I mean, it’s like this countercultural movement that started very grassroots, that, you know…they started their own clubs, they started their own little communities, they booked shows together and stuff, and then both of them happened to get mainstream appeal and attention and now, you know, they’re kind of…you know it became commodified and stuff, but, you know, there’s still…there’s that heart there, still. And I think really, it’s interesting if you look at the rise of hip-hop and the rise of punk and see how similar they actually are.

This is very interesting, actually. If there’s a book you can recommend me, I’ll definitely read it, like.

Well, there are…you see, the problem is you can get individual books on the rise of punk and individual books on the rise of hip-hop; I don’t know if there’s one that, like, compares the two. Maybe there is, I’m not saying there isn’t, but I’m just…if there is, I’m just not aware of it. But I think those two scenes are very interesting and I think a lot of like…and I suppose actually you could say with the heavy metal scene, too.

Yeah, for sure. With the heavy metal scene.

Yeah. I think a lot of genres just started off that way, where it’s like, here’s just people doing interesting shit, and then a community, you know, kind of grows around that, and then someone says, “Hey! We can make money off this!” [Laughs] You know?

Yeah, literally, yeah! [Both laugh]

Going back to “luvletters” then, yeah, as you mentioned, it’s a collab with REM$, and it’s interesting because when you kind of listen to his style, it feels, in a way, somewhat contrasting to yours; I mean, it feels very bombastic, it feels very, you know, in your face, and that might sound negative. I don’t mean it as such.

No, it’s fine.

And it feels potentially kind of contradicting, but it kind of works. I don’t know how…it compliments each other, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I get ya. And, yeah, honestly, I appreciate you saying that. Thank you. You know, because originally, I was writing it actually about somebody, you know what I mean? Because like the whole thing with “luvletters” is, it was about me sending over love letters to this one because we were chatting, we were trying to get a whole relationship going, it was…you know, the whole pandemic thing kind of stopped that, so snail mail was the option. And REM$ had a whole completely different experience – because obviously we’re not the same person; he’s going to have a completely different experience during the lockdown – so, that’s what he wrote about. And I didn’t even provoke him to do that; he just started going off the top. What happened was, I played him the beat, back when we were in Pirate Studio, and he just started, all of a sudden, going on his phone for a sec. I was like, “Bro, you’ve gone on for so long. Who are you texting?” He was actually on the Notes app; I was like, “Oh!” [Both laugh] “Oh! You’re writing a bar?!” I was like, “You’re writing bars for this?!” I was like, “Oh, OK, that’s cool!” And I was…honestly, I lit up. My eyes lit up like fucking a Christmas tree, you know what I’m saying? And, yeah, he started writing his own thing and I was hearing what he was saying in it. Like, his kind of bar is a bit more negative, because like, you know what I mean, he was kind of in a conflicting situation at the time. So, I still think that like it kind of worked because the beat itself is a bit melancholic and it’s…you know, it’s soft, so you can either talk about the good times or the bad times but, either way, I…honestly, I loved it because it was kind of the two – like you said – like, the two contrasting ideas and the two different sounds, even, kind of came together and it was kind of a risk for me because, obviously, it could have gone either way, but I’m glad it happened because here we are today with that…with the single out now and it’s honestly, right now, it’s one of my favourite works.

Yeah, no, I think so. And I guess that’s the other thing I’ll ask, is how do you think this song differentiates itself from maybe other works? Because you were talking about – in the press release you gave – that you kind of wanted to go in a more kind of alternative R&B, kind of hip-hop route; that was kind of your sort of intent. I was wondering how you feel that this single kind of moves you in that direction?

I feel like the single is my foot in the door, you know what I’m saying? Like, this is my first step towards that kind of opening up, experimenting [with] myself. Because obviously it’s still soft, it still has my sound, but then, honestly, I’m not going to tell you how old it is, but this beat is actually pretty old, you know what I’m saying? So, like, literally it wasn’t even months until releasing it that I listened back to the album – because everything was done already; like, the master was done, the vocals were done, the beat was it, that was it. I had the final product – but then I listened to it one more time, and I was like, “I’m not feeling this anymore,” you know what I mean? Like, this was me…obviously I’ve had a lot more life experience since that time, since I wrote this, since I made the beat, since we recorded it, so I was listening back on it, I was like, “Yo. This ain’t it,” you know? And it felt kind of devastating, ‘cause like…but it was needed, because when you’re very critical of your work, people see it as a negative thing, but it was legitimate, like, “No, I actually can’t do this because I won’t feel right about it,” you know?

Yeah, totally.

So, I had to add like a little sprinkle of how I currently feel of what I currently do at the end. So, that’s why you hear the Jersey mix at the end. Like, the original idea was I wanted to release this and I wanted that as the remix, you know? But that would be counterintuitive, like, you know, I’m still a new artist, I can’t actually make people listen to the two things at once.

Sure.

Plus, with…I actually have a plan for the rest of the year. We can talk about that later, if you want.

Yeah, absolutely.

But, yeah, I decided to put the two together and just give them a little taste. A little teaser.

So, it was originally planned as like a B-side, yeah?

Exactly, yeah. Like a B-side, you know? So, yeah. So, that’s the story of that.

I’m just going to check that I asked everything. Yeah, I mean, I think I’ve pretty much asked everything. I only have like one or two more things. So, basically, do you have any plans for an EP or an album, or is it just singles for the foreseeable future?

Honestly, I do have plans for an EP, actually. [Laughs] It’s funny you ask. So, “luvletters” is, like, lowkey one of the leading singles. I think you’re getting the exclusive right now, actually.

Sweet!

Yeah. That’s what’s up. So, the idea is I release this single. There’s another one that’s coming out in the next month or two, I still have to finalise the dates on that, but that one is going to be…is like, yeah, no, it’s going to be another lo-fi, kind of rap…rap-y song. But then a few months after that, the EP’s dropping then. I’ll have a lead single to advertise all that. I’ll have a few music videos by then. But, yeah, no, this EP is coming out. It’s going to have a couple of songs on it. I’m not trying to put too much into it because I have plans for more in the future, maybe even later in the year.

OK.

You know what I’m saying? So, definitely stayed tuned to that. But, yeah, that’s kind of the plan for the first half of the year, anyway.

Yeah. Do you see the EPs – and the singles I guess, as well – I guess, as testing grounds for what a full LP could be like? Because I know for example a lot of people…a lot of people, like, you know, demo shit around, they kind of do stuff live, or they’ll do certain songs live, but also, they’ll kind of test it but they’ll go, “I want another year or two of growth before I drop the album.” It’s a very…for a lot of people, I can drop EPs all day, but the album…the first album has to be something special, you know what I mean?

For sure.

Do you feel that way, where it’s like, “I would just rather put it off until I’m fully content with what I know I want to do”?

Yeah, no, I agree because that’s honestly how I feel. Like, you were spot on there, like about dropping an album. But honestly, an EP would just be a collection of songs that you made, but an album, an album is so much more. Because as a person, as a music lover, that’s how I listen to my music. Obviously everybody has…like, a lot of people would be listening to more playlists and completions, but I want to dig into the artist’s head, to see what they were thinking, what they were doing, what they were breathing, what they were eating, what they were sleeping, who they were fucking at the time, and the only way to do that is to listen to the whole album back-to-front, front-to-back, sideways, and upside-down. Yeah.

You threw up some vinyl earlier, and one thing I think is really interesting about vinyl, once I started getting into it, is that it really made me think – because, when I was growing up, I had CDs and then, when I became a teenager, it was digital pretty much since – and when I started listening to vinyl in my 20s, it was interesting because it kind of made me think of, like, you’re not just thinking of the order of the album; you’re thinking of it kind of twice. You’re thinking of the A-side and you’re thinking of the B-side….and [how] they compliment. Do you think listening to vinyl adds interesting perspectives to music production, because that’s something I just would never think about, where to end an A-side or a B-side, if everything was just a continuous flow, you know what I mean?

Yeah, that’s the thing because, honestly, I am a purist at heart, so, like, I would just be the traditional front-to-back kind of listener. But then when Kendrick [Lamar] dropped Damn in 2017, it made me rethink the whole thing, because like there was this rumour – I’m pretty sure you remember it – of a second album that he was dropping, and everyone was like, “Oh, what is it going to be called? Is it going to be called Darn? Is it going to be called Dang? Is it a western kind of collab thing?”

I remember Damn 2 being thrown around. [Laughs]

You know what I mean? Damn 2! Yeah, with that alternative picture, and there was going to be a red one, there was going to be a blue one, I was like, “Hmmm, this is probably not a good idea.” But, yeah, he came out… – I don’t know if it was an interview or whatever – when he came out, he was like, “Oh, if you listen to it backwards, it’s actually a whole new story,” and then that’s when it clicked, I was like, “Oh, shit. That’s the second album!” And then it was confirmed when he dropped the deluxe edition, where it was the album actually backwards, so you don’t have to do it yourself, which I appreciate because I’m a lazy guy. [Both laugh] Yeah, for real. I appreciated that. So, obviously Kendrick has a lot of other works – fucking, you know, To Pimp a Butterfly got a Pulitzer Price – but Damn is pretty underrated in terms of his collection, you know what I mean? Solely because of that reason. Also, because of the bangers, you know what I mean?

Kendrick’s playing 4D chess, man. [Laughs]

Honestly, he is! He’s over here…[Mimes moving chess pieces]

But, dude, some of the shit he comes up with is like, “Oh, my God!” [Laughs] Like, you know what I mean? It’s like, “How did you do this?!”

Yeah, for real. Like, the whole…yeah, like, even his new album, Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers, you know what I mean? Like, it’s a whole concept. How did you make a toxic relationship, record that, and drop that, and it’s a hot single? [Laughs] You know what I’m saying?

Yeah, exactly, and I actually think it can be quite hard to listen to, sometimes.

It is.

Yeah, it is great, but sometimes it’s just like, “Fuck!” Like, the two people shouting “No, Fuck you! Fuck you!” and I’m like, “I can’t!”

Yeah! It’s crazy. ‘Cause that’s the thing, ‘cause, yeah, a few of my friends…like I know one friend in particular, she is a huge Kendrick fan, but she can’t listen to that song.

It’s hard to. It’s rough.

Because of her experience.

But I think what’s interesting, but somewhat difficult, is that it is asking the listener to bring their own baggage, you know what I mean? It is asking them to kind of go, like, OK, everyone has some relation to this…it doesn’t have to be a relationship in the traditional kind of, I guess, romantic context, but everyone has toxic relations to some degree, and it’s like you can’t do that concept without the listener having to impose their life experience onto it, and I think that can be very challenging to do but I do think it’s rewarding, but I get it if someone’s like, “I can’t!” you know? [Laughs]

Yeah, I get you! Yeah. It’s tough. Obviously, you know what I mean, some people will feel one way about this thing, but other people would rather not, you know what I mean? It’s just opening a can of worms.

If you did an album, would it be conceptual, or do you think it would just be a string of bangers?

That’s the thing, I think I want to do a conceptual album, actually, because, like, at heart, I’d like to think of myself as a storyteller, you know? Like, in terms of release, I’ve been thinking about, like, doing physical ones, because obviously people are doing vinyls and all that kind of stuff. But I, personally, I love tapes and CDs. [Pauses]

Yeah. Would you ever…?

Sorry, I was going to throw a dirty joke in there! I didn’t! I was like, “Nah, I’m not going to do that!” [Both laugh] Yeah, because I saw beabadoobee release, like, cassettes and I was like, “Oh, my God! That’s actually pretty cool!” you know what I mean? Not a lot of people have done that yet, so I would like to look into that, at least.

Would you consider signing with a label, or would you like to do everything self-released? Because I know self-releasing physical media is a bitch. [Laughs]

It is. Yeah, like, I’ve been talking to a few people about it, there. Like, a lot of my musician friends have been thinking about it, especially ones who haven’t done it in a while, you know what I mean? Just to spice things up a bit. Yeah, like vinyls are not cheap, bruh!

No.

They are not cheap! And, yeah, if you’re thinking of getting – what? – a whole batch of it? Like, a thousand, or whatever? Not even a thousand because, you know what I mean, that’s the goal in the future. But, yeah, it’s so expensive. But, at the same time, when you’re signing to a label, you know what I mean, these days, obviously, you can’t make it from CD and vinyl sales alone with this digital age, so you’d have to resort to streaming services, you’d have to resort to…like, specifically TikTok, because like, yeah, TikTok’s like a great platform right now to advertise whatever you’re doing; music would be one of them, you know what I mean? But, like, there’s not that much money in that.

You’re getting fucked either way, like, you know?

Yeah, literally! Know what I’m saying?

You’re getting fucked. Like, on streaming, the accessibility, I think, is the attractive thing, but the pay you get is just…

Exactly!

…it wouldn’t even afford lunch, you know?

Literally. Like, the best way I can describe being a musician, the position we’re in right now, is like a bukkake scene, you know what I’m saying? [Both laugh] Just fucking, [Mimes giving handjobs to various penises at once] record labels all over, trying to shoot at you, know what I’m saying? You’re just there in the middle, just taking it. [Both erupt into laughter]

That’s the cost of art!

I’m sorry about that!

You can say what you want; I’m not going to censor you!

Nice!

But what was I going to say? I was actually – you mentioned the GNS interview I did, with him and V-Sensei – and the thing we were kind of talking about, which I thought was cool, was the idea of music collectives, which, again, very punk rock, you know? Very hip-hop. But I was thinking, maybe that’s like a way people can go, if there’s a cool collective of a bunch of different artists, maybe people could chip in, perhaps? I’m just speculating…I’m just thinking, even something like a Patreon route or something like that, something where it’s like people who are into it can donate monthly or whatever, and maybe that’s how you can get vinyl, you can get…you know, just crowdsource your way and it’s like, just have these…and rather than do the record label route, say, “We’re going to stick our label on this, but you own the copyright to everything, this is your album,” you know what I mean? I think that would probably be a more ethical way of going about things, is kind of the collective means.

Yeah. I think, honestly, it’s a great idea because, like, obviously there’s so many starving artists out there and if you do grab…you gather a fanbase, and if they do fully support your music and all that, they’re willing to pay, then, you know what I mean, why not? It keeps you doing what you like to do and it feeds them that energy, you know what I mean? They get the music, you get to do the music, you know? And there’s like so many ways to do it now, you have Bandcamp, which is great because it’s bringing that whole crowd surfing, crowdfunding…crowd surfing? What? I’ll pause, that’s not what I was trying to say!

That’s more live. [Laughs]

Literally, yeah! I’d love to do that someday, but I’ll lose some weight first, then we’ll talk about that, later.

A lot of places won’t let you do it! They’re like, “Oh, no! We can’t take the risk!”

I know, it’s crazy. ‘Cause, like, it was crazy, I went to my friend Fortune’s gig the other day. He was crowd surfing there, and I was like, “I wanna do that! That! I wanna do that!”

Yeah.

You know?

You got to make sure the crowd are into you first, so they’ll catch ya.

Exactly. Oh, yeah, for sure. Obviously, you’ve got to read the crowd, as well. You don’t want…If you’re like a soft, indie artist and then you have not gym bros in the crowd, it’s probably not the best idea! ‘Cause, like, I don’t know if you saw this video of Clairo [Laughs] trying to crowd surf! Oh, God!

Oh, really? I love Clairo, but I haven’t seen that.

Yeah, ‘cause like I remember you were talking about bedroom pop earlier. I feel like she singlehandedly started that movement, you know what I mean?

Yeah, and I thought with her last album, Sling…it felt like a real evolution of that, where it seemed sort of in the middle of bedroom pop and professional standard. I can’t really explain it. It doesn’t seem…it still seems to have somewhat of a lo-fi…maybe mid-fi? [Laughs]

Probably…definitely more than lo-fi, you know? She has more fi now. She has a lot more money, so she should have more fi. [Both laugh]

But what was happening with Clairo when she tried to crowd surf?

[Laughs] So, yeah, no, I can’t even remember…I think it was, like, Governors Ball or something, in the U.S. It was some festival. But poor her though, ‘cause she was like trying to…she couldn’t even jump off the crowd and then like…but I mean, yo, shoutout to that crowd though because they were trying to pick her up, they were trying to get her crowd surf and all that stuff. But you know what I mean, I am sorry to that crowd. I’m sorry to Clairo that that footage exists.

I’m going to check it out after this. I’ll link it in the article.

Yeah, literally! Just like at the bottom!

I’ll just embed it here! [Editor’s Note: I couldn’t find the video in question, but this is where it would have gone]

Oh, stop! Oh, God! I swear to God, I hope she doesn’t see this interview!

And that will be your fault!

Oh, my God! Stop, yo! She gonna to hate me! Clairo, I’m so sorry! I’m literally like one of her biggest fans, I’m like, “Brah!”

You’re not getting that Clairo collab!

I’m not, no! [Laughs] I’m getting that Clairo lawsuit though, so that’s her signature in the bag! Get that restraining order, know what I’m saying?

It’s like, “I technically have her autograph!”

Yeah, exactly, you know what I’m saying! That’s literally like from that Drake and Josh episode, where it’s just like, “Here’s Oprah’s restraining order!” “Oh, my God! I got her signature!”

So, that’s Drake and Josh and The Last Airbender. Just all the Nickelodeon refs. And Good Burger.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I got the references in the bag. I don’t even have any notes for this, it’s just off the top of my dome.

Do a Dan Schneider collab.

Oh! [Laughs] Oh, God, no! I don’t know if I want to do that! My dogs are out right now, know what I’m saying? Like, I got the grippers out, but Dan Schneider ain’t getting any of this. [Laughs]

I don’t know why I said that!

I fucking love this interview!

You’re inspiring all the evil traits!

I’m sorry!

Shoutout to Jennette McCurdy.

Shoutout to Jennette McCurdy. Oh, she actually wrote that book!

Yeah, I haven’t read it, yet, but like…[Shivers]

I read some excerpts. Honestly, like, it’s pretty deep.

Oh, dude, it’s…Oh, my God! Let’s not go there! [Laughs]

Let’s not go there. Imagine if Twitter gets a hold of this, you know what I’m saying?

Oh, no!

Moving on!

Yeah, moving…! [Innocently whistles] OK, so wrapping up…[Laughs] Is there anything you’d like to add just before we wrap up, or…?

Honestly, I think I’ve said all I’ve wanted to say in there. Just a quick shoutout, I guess, to all artists who are out there, still trying to make it. Shoutout to my friends, in particular, in the industry, and my friends in general, because they’re going to be mad at me if I don’t shout them out. [Laughs] Honestly, still trying to get this bag, trying to get this money. Yeah. What else do I want to say? Yes, so that new single that’s coming soon, that’s called “corpse bride.” Definitely watch out for that. The EP name, we’ll know soon enough. I already have the EP, I’m just not going to say it.

You don’t have to drop it, that’s cool!

Exactly.

We’ve got enough exclusives today!

Go to my Patreon. Subscribe to me on FeetFinder. [Both laugh]

At Dan Schneider.

The funniest part is, my friends actually think I have a foot fetish, because I joke about that shit all the time, but I’m like, “No, I don’t.”

The Tarantino shit?

[Laughs hard] Tarantino! Yo, cut the cameras! Cut the cameras right now!

You’re not getting in any of Tarantino’s movies! He announced his last movie, I think. It’s called The Movie Critic. You’re not getting on the soundtrack.

Ah, damn! I mean, if I make a song about feet though, you know what I’m saying? Maybe, you know what I mean?

You’ll definitely get a crowd! You’ll definitely get an audience!

I’ll get some audience! I don’t know if it’s the one I want! [Laughs]

Sweet, dude. Thank you very much for your time.

Of course, yeah. Nah, thank you very much for having me.

Kendino’s latest single “luvletters” is streaming on all platforms now. You can keep up with him on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and stream his music here.

Aaron Kavanagh

Aaron Kavanagh is the Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Post-Burnout. His writing can also be found in the Irish Daily Star, Buzz.ie, Totally Dublin, The GOO, Headstuff, New Noise Magazine, XS Noize, DSCVRD and more.