Beginning as a lockdown project between the American musician Kevin Rutmanis (Cows, Melvins, Tomahawk) and the Australian artist Gina Skwoz, Lords and Lady Kevin have been releasing and touring as a two-piece for several years now. Recently, they linked up with the famed experimental musician Trevor Dunn (Mr. Bungle, Melvins, Tomahawk) to make the album, Last Days at Hot Slit, which was released last week.

Kevin and Gina spoke with Post-Burnout about the project, the album, getting Trevor on board, how it differs from the other projects of their storied careers, releasing the album through Overdrive, the secret to their song titles, and more.

How are you guys doing?

Kevin: Good!

Gina: Good!

Good! Nice to meet you. Where are you calling in from?

G: L.A.

Oh, cool! I’m over in Dublin, so…

K: Where?

G: In Dublin.

K: Oh!

[Laughs] I’ll try not to take up too much of your time. I mean, I just want to talk a little bit about this project and how it began. My understanding is that it was a lockdown project; you just had songs that you guys were working on. Was it, remotely, sending pieces together, because, if I’m correct, that’s how this record was recorded, as well?

G: Well, Kevin and I… – because I was in Australia – …so, we were sending things back and forth, and then, when we got back here, we put them together, then Trevor messaged us and said he was keen to work on something.

K: You know, I did a Lathe Cut ten-inch during the whole virus thing, then we expanded that into a full LP, and then, you know, we decided, all three, to do it together. And you’re right; we did it, long distance, back and forth.

What about this project is different from what you were doing elsewhere? Because, obviously, I was aware of the many different projects you’ve been involved with, so, with Lords and Lady Kevin, how do you think this stands apart from your discography?

K: Well, largely because of Trevor, because…You’re familiar with his work, I’m sure?

Yeah.

K: He’s got great ideas, and he’s not an egomaniac, and he’s not mean, so he’s kind of perfect. You know, the unwritten rule of this is there’s no rules, you know? He adds…You know, we get an idea, and somebody adds something, and it’s not just…I mean, he’s played saxophone, he’s added samples, he’s sang on some stuff. But nobody else told anyone what to do, you know?

Yeah. You get the sense from the record… – when I was listening to it; again, this could be my own interpretation – …but it seemed very improvisational, it felt very free-flowing. Was that how it felt for you guys, actually making it?

G: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, there was a lot of…I mean, yeah, a lot of it had improvisational qualities to it. Like, most of the drums were improvised, and then sort of structured after the fact, kind of thing. [To Kevin] And the guitar, too, right?

K: Everything started with an improv, I mean, really.

G: Yeah.

K: Which is sort of true of all songs, but, yeah, you know, you’d like something…That’s the beauty of computers, that I really started to exploit during the virus, is that you can really arrange things, you know? And really try things out, and know, right away, if it’s going to work or not, and then, you know, we could build songs from that; move this over there and make this longer or slower. I mean, a lot of straighter records that I’ve done or other people have done, it’s the same idea: You start with parts that somebody made up and you put it together, that way. It’s just then, for some reason, with these people, when we put them together, it still doesn’t sound right!

[Laughs] When it comes to putting together a body of work like this – when you have several songs that are interconnecting – is there any idea of the continuity or the flow between songs, or is it just putting together what sounds right in the correct order? In the production timeline, how do you start thinking about the track listing, or is that just something that comes later?

K: [To Gina] Tell him!

G: [Laughs] The track listing is alphabetical.

Oh, OK! I didn’t even notice that! [Laughs]

[Gina laughs]

K: So, the computer sort of decides!

G: Yeah!

Oh, cool! So, it’s kind of randomised?

K: I will admit that I have cheated. When I wanted something to be the third song, I changed the title. But, mostly, not.

That’s cool! I should check that out because I was totally oblivious to that.

K: Nobody notices!

One thing that I thought was interesting, too, was that there’s a new version of the song “Shape,” which was on [their first EP] The Thing. I was wondering why you decided to redo that song?

K: Which song?

G: “Shape.”

K: Oh!

G: Um, actually, a few of those songs are restructured from that, The Thing.  

K: Yeah, I don’t know if you knew; we pretended like it was the soundtrack to The Thing, the movie, and all the titles were taken from that original soundtrack because I loved those titles. So, some of those songs, we took and redid them with Trevor, which made them totally different songs, and “Shape” was from The Thing. John Carpenter’s The Thing. [To Gina] Did we call it that?

G: No, we can’t; we just called it The Thing. [Laughs] Yeah, that one, once we added Trevor, it just became this totally new song, and, with a lot of them, that happened as well, so…

K: We didn’t use all of them from that, but the ones that we used, we kept the title from the John Carpenter, The Thing.

You guys are a two-piece, but you mentioned working with Trevor, and, also, working with David [Livingstone] from God Bullies, and things like that. There is a lot of outsider collaboration coming in. When it comes to the instrumentation on the record, how do you delegate, “Here’s what you’re going to do, here’s what I’m going to do, and here’s what we’re going to bring in”?

K: We don’t do that!

G: Yeah! [Laughs]

Oh, do you not? [Laughs]

K: [Laughs] No, there’s never really…Especially with people like Trevor or David; those guys are fertile [Laughs] with ideas, and it would be foolish for us to try to control them because then we’re going to miss out. They’re going to have ideas that I would never had. Those are both guys that I’ve worked with, and I know them, and I trust them, so it was more of a back-and-forth. He might send something to us, or we might send something to him, or Gina might send something to…whatever, and then it goes back and forth, and people add stuff or take out stuff, but nobody ever really tells somebody else what they want. And then, even further adding to the chaos is Jim [Goodwin], pSEUDO bEAST, who mixes all our stuff. We don’t really tell him what to do, either. So, a mix will come back and, lo and behold, there’s an instrument that none of us have recorded on this.

G: Taking out the guitar or whatever!

K: “Didn’t there used to be a guitar, there?” Well, Jim took it out!

[Laughs] I love that; not being too precious about the music and just allowing what comes out from people’s different contributions, because, obviously, you wouldn’t be collaborating with them in the first place if you felt that you couldn’t trust their instincts, you know?

K: Right. That’s what’s so fun about it because it’s really hard to…Well, it’s an inclination to want to tell people what to do. [Laughs] Not even tell them what to do, but what I expect. “Oh, I was really hoping that he would go crazy in that part, but he didn’t!” But now I can just go, “Oh!”, you know? It’s fun, and it’s better and different. Maybe not “Better,” but it’s different.

When it comes to performing live, do you guys try to replicate the songs that are on the records, or is the set just completely different? How do you go about crafting a set to, I guess, introduce people to the band in a live setting?

K: Well, when we rehearse them, we structure them.

G: Yeah. For live, we’ve taken those songs and, yeah, made more of a structure, because they’re pretty free on the record. So, like, we’ve taken elements of the songs and put them together so they’re sort of vaguely recognisable, but more structured. But we still have…Like, a couple of the live songs, they have an idea but it’s still very improvised. Like, we could stop at one minute, we could stop at three minutes, you know? That kind of thing.

K: I mean, it’s a well-rehearsed set, you know? We know what’s going to happen, overall.

G: Yeah.

K: It’s not…I mean, we learn the parts, you know? [Laughs]

[Laughs] Yeah! Do you do crowd interaction? Do you try and bring some, I guess, chaos and entropy through crowd interaction? Because you never know; every time you play, there’s always going to be different people in the crowd. Sometimes there’s going to be loudmouths, sometimes there’s going to be crowds that are a bit more reticent and stepping back a bit. How do you engage with the crowd, in that sense, or is it just more of a matter of doing it for your amusement?

K: Well, it’s not for our own amusement, but, at this stage, no one’s familiar with it, really, anyway, so…I mean, there are different people who respond differently, just like us. Like, there’ll be someone…You can tell, they’ll be right up front, listening, and they’re really listening, and then… [Gina laughs] You know what I mean? I’ve seen people sitting on a stool, right up front, looking down, and they’re listening, and, you know, that’s the kind of listener they are, and there are other people…You know. So, it’s different for everyone. We’re definitely ent…We’re trying to be entertaining; we’re not pretending like we’re at home, in a living room. I never enjoy that, when a band pretends like they’re at home, just jamming together, and we happen to be there.

Too cool for school?

K: Yeah. I want to see a show!

G: Yeah, I was just thinking about that. We did one show, it was at Caterwaul, and Kevin was doing that last song, “Indifference,” where he makes a spectacle with the microphone. There was this kid at the front, who was watching really attentively, and Kevin came up with the microphone and gave it to him…

K: To sing along.

G: …and he went like, [Puts hand up and shakes head]. [Laughs]

K: It was very funny. It was perfect because I was saying, “Indifference, indifference.” Yeah, and I handed him the mic, and he went, [Mimes jerking away], which was…

So, he is kind of contributing to the show, in a…?

K: Absolutely! He totally understood what we were up to! It was great!

As we were mentioning, the record’s coming out on December 6^th, if I’m correct.

K: Yes.

It’s on Overdrive. I was wondering, you guys have been on varying labels over the years, what was it about this company that made you want to put this material out with them?

K: Well, it was just that Jochen [Summer] over at Rock Is Hell, his schedule was full and we had this stuff pending, so we just looked for someone who could put it out, and those guys were available and wanted to do it. The Overdrive guys, I mean. And then, Dan [Volohov] – you know, you’ve talked to Dan – he helped set it up, he knew those people, and, so far, it’s great. They’re really attentive and they want things to look and sound right, so it’s been a good experience.

That’s an interesting point that I want to ask about – obviously, you guys have been doing this for a while now, in your varying fields, and do you think it’s still important to never get complacent with the connections you have and to always still have your fingers on the pulse, in the sense of trying to reach out and find new people to aid in your journey, or however you want to put it?

K: Yeah, it’s not easy because the music is different or new to a lot of ears, so we try to make that as easy as we can on everyone! [All laugh] You know? We try because I know I’m asking something of the audience, but I think the payoff is there for people that are interested in that kind of thing. It’s a little tricky.

Yeah, I think that’s, sometimes, the music that you end up appreciating more, is the one that you have to work a little bit to penetrate, I guess, and to kind of understand a little bit, you know?

G: Yeah, I agree.

K: Well, you said something about having the finger on the pulse; my finger has been so far off the pulse for so long that, as far as I can tell, the body is dead. So, that’s how far from the pulse, I am! I can’t even tell! I’m just waving my hand around in the air! [Laughs] I know!

Well, perfect, guys. I’ve really enjoyed talking. Is there anything you guys would like to add before we wrap up?

K: Just that I really want people to hear this – which is what anyone wants, who makes music – and I hope it gives people the joy that we got making it, because it’s so much fun…

G: So fun.

K: …and so satis…The music is doing exactly what we want it to, which is a nice surprise, so, hopefully, it will resonate with somebody.

Dunn with Lords and Lady Kevin’s album, Last Days at Hot Slit, is out now. You can purchase a copy and keep up with the band through their Bandcamp.

Aaron Kavanagh

Aaron Kavanagh is the Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Post-Burnout. His writing can also be found in the Irish Daily Star, Buzz.ie, Totally Dublin, The GOO, Headstuff, New Noise Magazine, XS Noize, DSCVRD and more.